Snowflakes

[Lazzzydog]

When does abuse become racism, and does your race make the abuse more serious. I watched MOD2 last night and a black Chelsea player got monkey chants from some members of the Tottenham crowd which he reported to his captain who in turn reported it to the referee. The referee had to stop the game and consult both team managers. The club will be held responsible by the FA and face a hefty fine. The so called experts in the studio suggested the players could have considered walking off. Now I am not siding with the numpties in the crowd but if I was earning 50 grand a week to chase a bag of wind around a field I think I could stand some p*** taking if that’s what came with the job.
This kind of abuse has gone on for years in football but to predominantly white males and it still goes on today at virtually every professional and amateur game in the country without so much as a murmur from anyone in authority and the men on the receiving end do not earn anywhere near that sort of money. I am talking about the match officials of course who week in week out suffer stick from both sets of supporters when a decision does not go there sides way. Everything from there parentage to there eyesight is shouted at them in an abusive way but this it seems is acceptable because they are not black. Maybe they should walk off until they get 50 grand a week and backing from the snowflake generation.

 

[Z Victor 1]

Sorry, but you are completely wrong on this Tony. Everybody, including all the black, Asian and other ethnic minority people I know personally , accepts and even enjoys a bit of banter, but racism which suggests that a person of a particular racial background is therefore inferior is never acceptable.

 

[andyglym]

My view is that these individuals, if identified, should be banned from all UK football grounds for life and charged by the Police. This in turn could lead to being sacked by their employer(s). This is how to send out the message.

Snowflakes is another issue all together. Banter is all about knowing your audience.

 

[Lazzzydog]

But why is it acceptable to abuse the referee and linesmen? Is it because they do not have the backing of an active anti racism movement? I think we are actually in danger of increasing racism by reacting to these morons. Rising above it and getting on with the job would be far more effective.

 

[Redline]

It can’t be ignored. To do so gives acceptance that it is ok.

The individual though must be remarkably stupid. The 4K cameras will easily pick them out even from a wide angle shot. They will get caught and banned.

Issues regarding referees has to be treated separately. They have the power to sanction players but often choose not to do so. Not sure what can be done as far as mass abuse though.
I have seen a 16 year old ref ban a parent from the touch line in a youth game. That went down well. That said I suspect they acknowledge they’re going to get abuse to some degree.

 

[Sean d]

I swing to the right but racial abuse is unacceptable whether its football, the workplace or anywhere else for that matter, the amount one earns doesn't come into it
Referee abuse is a different matter all together.

 

[t-tony]

The thing I find hard to get my head round is that these morons abuse black players who play for the opposing team whilst their own team also employ black player's. Are these player's skin colour changed by the shirt they wear? f***ing hypocrites if you ask me.

Tony.

 

[Bampz]

The thing I find hard to get my head round is that these morons abuse black players who play for the opposing team whilst their own team also employ black player's. Are these player's skin colour changed by the shirt they wear? f***ing hypocrites if you ask me.

Tony.

Because it then becomes a tribal thing and it's one tribe against another as long as you wear my colours that's all that matters to some , don't hear about these issues in the proper game with the proper shaped ball where fans mix together with no issues ,

 

[Redline]

Because it then becomes a tribal thing and it's one tribe against another as long as you wear my colours that's all that matters to some , don't hear about these issues in the proper game with the proper shaped ball where fans mix together with no issues ,

And, it is those tribes themselves that protect rather than give up the perpetrators. They bank on the safety in numbers or being a faceless individual in a vast sea of people.
Of course it is difficult to act safely while you're stuck in the middle of a crowd. Mobiles tend not to work effectively when you're amongst 65,000 other people in a big crowd. That technology isn't designed to work at that phone density. Sending a text or using an app won't guarantee communication when needed. It isn't a viable solution nor one that you could use safely in all circumstances.

Only decisive action by the authorities making an example of a club (or country) by banning them from competitions and forfeiting fixtures will it stop. Of course there is risk that those causing trouble might deliberately create a situation, so it needs to be backed up by legal level of proof.

Nowadays, it isn't hard to remotely monitor individuals in the crowd. The technology is already commonplace. It just needs re-tasking.
Audio processing would quickly identify the location of the source of any monkey chants and probably specific words and phrases.
Spotters could identify and illuminate specific individuals without them being aware. Bound together with automated cctv, they can easily be picked out and filmed probably while still in the act. Sounds bit big brother? Maybe! But certainly feasible. Directional microphones in the top of the stands pointing at the first fifteen rows - job done. Of course you're get the invasion of privacy brigade piling in, but nobody cares what people chat about.
We're all invaded many times daily from the colossal number of tv cameras pointing at our every move. Not acting protects the vile scum that hide amongst us.

And cost? All this would cost far less than the vastly inflated salary of just one player. Not a high price. The reality is it would only need to be used a couple of times.

Will it happen? Sadly i don't think it would. Sloping shoulders. Make it someone else's problem.

 

[Bampz]

Very eloquently put

 

[andyglym]

And, it is those tribes themselves that protect rather than give up the perpetrators. They bank on the safety in numbers or being a faceless individual in a vast sea of people.
Of course it is difficult to act safely while you're stuck in the middle of a crowd. Mobiles tend not to work effectively when you're amongst 65,000 other people in a big crowd. That technology isn't designed to work at that phone density. Sending a text or using an app won't guarantee communication when needed. It isn't a viable solution nor one that you could use safely in all circumstances.

Only decisive action by the authorities making an example of a club (or country) by banning them from competitions and forfeiting fixtures will it stop. Of course there is risk that those causing trouble might deliberately create a situation, so it needs to be backed up by legal level of proof.

Nowadays, it isn't hard to remotely monitor individuals in the crowd. The technology is already commonplace. It just needs re-tasking.
Audio processing would quickly identify the location of the source of any monkey chants and probably specific words and phrases.
Spotters could identify and illuminate specific individuals without them being aware. Bound together with automated cctv, they can easily be picked out and filmed probably while still in the act. Sounds bit big brother? Maybe! But certainly feasible. Directional microphones in the top of the stands pointing at the first fifteen rows - job done. Of course you're get the invasion of privacy brigade piling in, but nobody cares what people chat about.
We're all invaded many times daily from the colossal number of tv cameras pointing at our every move. Not acting protects the vile scum that hide amongst us.

And cost? All this would cost far less than the vastly inflated salary of just one player. Not a high price. The reality is it would only need to be used a couple of times.

Will it happen? Sadly i don't think it would. Sloping shoulders. Make it someone else's problem.

A lot of work to do within society to fix this

 

[Redline]

A lot of work to do within society to fix this

Peer pressure sorts out 99%.
Like crime - it's just the 1% that you have to tackle directly.

If you don't do that, the problem just creeps and gets worse organically to the point it becomes acceptable. Like driving standards and the creeping acceptance of poor and unacceptable behaviour.

Some politicians with the balls to step up and do the job would help. They forget that the first to move is the one that gets remembered and lauded. Useless to**ers the lot of them.

 

[Lazzzydog]

Excellent replies to a thorny question and it appears that I am ploughing a lone furrow, while in no way supporting racist behaviour I do think that the reaction and measures taken are disproportionate to the damage done to the offended party. Redline’s high tech answer could certainly be implemented and I suspect in the very near future will become a reality once the cost to install becomes less than the fines imposed on the clubs whose fans persist in this childish behaviour. But I still cannot accept that it’s more wrong for the fans to abuse a player than it is for those same fans to abuse the match officials. Nor can it be more wrong than when the players themselves abuse a referee or linesman, which believe me happens virtually every match if you go to a live game that has not had the opportunity to be edited for tv highlights. I read somewhere that Orwell’s “1984” has gone from being a novel to a being a rule book.

 

[Ianmc]

This is indeed a tricky issue. Somebody famous once said "I might disagree with every thing you say, but would die for your right to say it".
Freedom of speech is vital, but you must take personal responsibility for how you use it. Discuss!!

 

[petecossie]

The sad thing about that match is that the whole crowd was brilliant when they had the tribute to Martin Peters at the start of the game. Then when things weren't going Spurs way (they played c**p anyway) a few numpties started on the (alleged) monkey chants. What gets into some people beggars belief!!
I go to watch rugby and cricket matches and they don't have this issue.

 

[benf]

I thought when I saw the title of this thread you were on about a white Christmas!

 

[Sean d]

The sad thing about that match is that the whole crowd was brilliant when they had the tribute to Martin Peters at the start of the game. Then when things weren't going Spurs way (they played c**p anyway) a few numpties started on the (alleged) monkey chants. What gets into some people beggars belief!!
I go to watch rugby and cricket matches and they don't have this issue.

It is getting into cricket

 

[Geoff Crispin]

I hope not

 

[t-tony]

"Hooliganism" is creeping into soccer supporters in the US. It seems as though it should be, as part and parcel of the game there to be the same all over the world.

Tony..

 

[Redline]

This is indeed a tricky issue. Somebody famous once said "I might disagree with every thing you say, but would die for your right to say it".
Freedom of speech is vital, but you must take personal responsibility for how you use it. Discuss!!

Absolutely right. Use it unwisely then expect what you say (or worse) to come back at you.